John A. Weeks III wrote:

- quote -

I think you're the one who is reading too much into the text. Mr.
Markwood did not state that he thought the government is going to fall,
he merely asked for a hedge against a falling U.S. dollar: "I... have
concerns about the American dollar continuing to lose value. I have
been considering moving a portion of my funds into precious metals as a
hedge against the dollar."

- quote -

No, she doesn't. She says, "I agree with you that precious metals look
smart right now..."

- quote -

I hardly think that 20% is a minimized move.

- quote -

No, she didn't. She says, "You will get the hedge you want while
remaining diversified."

- quote -

Joe acknowledged that and gave the context.

-Will

Elle wrote:

- quote -

I'm expecting Skip to shut down these directed, non-planning types of
posts. I am free to post my own opinions on my own site, and agree or
disagree with any public figure. I took your comments to heart, that I
need to be careful to provide a link so I'm not taking questions or
answers out of context. With that in mind, the rest of my postings on my
site are my opinion only. And you are welcome to your opinions, which I
do respect, and value.
JOE

Joe, your site's latest alleged misadvice from Suze Orman
concerns a late 40s couple with 2.5 million dollars to
invest. This is the net from a recent home sale. You leap
to advise the couple to become "loaded on stocks." But the
couple says they want to "hang on to the principal." As you
say to Suze on your site, "wake up." You do not probe,
either, after all. You have the gall to disregard their
wishes and insist that the future will repeat the past, re
historical stock returns.

Are you aware that, of the two choices, "all money in the
stock market or all money in TIPs," Robert Shiller advises
holding only TIPS? That's not for just people like this
couple; that's for everyone. Where is your attack on
Shiller? Your site seems to me oddly lopsided in its
criticism of specific, media-known financial advisors.

In article <pdCdnbukerWFlN3YnZ2dnUVZ_q-dnZ2d[at]comcast.com> ,
joetaxpayer <joetaxpayer[at]nospam.com> wrote:

- quote -

Again, I think you read more into it than what is there.
First, consider the context. This is someone who thinks that the
government is going to fall and wants to own gold rather than US
currency. Suze says that it is a bad idea (gold has already had
its run up), then she says to minimize the move, and finally, she
pooh-poohs the entire idea by saying that the person should diversify
rather than concentrating in one asset class.

It isn't fair to take one posting, and then read it without
context. Suze has a long history of giving advice, and has a
large body of work in the form of books and past speeches.
You need to look at the big picture and not single out little
snippets. Doing the latter, one could probably find a quote
that says just about anything, so long as you ignore context.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john[at]johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

joetaxpayer wrote:
- quote -


That's the kind of stuff I find troublesome, and it's not hard to find
those kinds of nuggets amongst the more typical kinds of recommendations
she gives.

I can imagine an inexperienced investor hearing that comment, directed
at a RETIREE of all things..."consider placing just a portion of your
assets in precious metals; as much as 20 percent seems reasonable to me"
and thinking that's the normal, typical, conservative thing to do.
Twenty percent is a pretty big number, given the volatility of precious
metals prices, and the limited time a retiree has to see prices snap
back after they fall (with gold, 30 years hasn't been enough).

In fact I have yet to meet an individual who puts 20% of their assets in
precious metals, unless you count the kind that comes in little blue
boxes. Maybe that's what she meant -- not an investment -- she's
extrapolating from that "two months salary" DeBeers ad campaign?

Does gender have anything to do with it? No, of course not. Whether it
was coming from Suze or Jim or Rupaul, 20% is too much to tell beginning
investors to put into precious metals, which aren't really even an asset
class. And as I said it's not hard to find these kinds of "huh?"
recommendations.

Separate beef: recommendations made on limited info. But we're all
guilty of that and certainly, the radio/TV/phone-in format doesn't lend
itself to comprehensive analyses.

-Tad

John A. Weeks III wrote:

- quote -

This should be a good link.
I quoted the question verbatim and summarized the answer with no
prejudice (i.e. I don't believe I snipped to remove anything from the
context) when I referred to it.
http://www.costcoconnection.com/conn...ch=suze%20gold

JOE

In article <453FEF75.80405[at]paragondynamics.com> ,
Will Trice <wwtrice[at]paragondynamics.com> wrote:

- quote -


- quote -

Can you provide a link where she changes her advice? In this
link that you posted, she simply talks about certain metals
investments and some ways to play the market. She never suggests
that one run out and do this. Rather, the way I read it, she is
saying that if you are already interested, here are some ways to
play it. In fact, she even points out a key pitfall in the way
many folks invest in gold.

The fact of the matter is that even with the recent run up in
gold prices, it is still a net looser long term, being one of
the single worst investments that one could make.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john[at]johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

Elle wrote:

- quote -

I was aghast when I saw, heard, or read (can't remember which now) her
20% advice. This has come up here before and this link provides more
context:

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....ccb96b30942c5b

Kinda funny advice after this bit on Larry King:

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0004/17/lkl.00.html

KING: Do you ever recommend gold or silver?

ORMAN: No, never.

KING: You ever recommend commodities?

ORMAN: Never.

KING: Never?

ORMAN: Never.

Although she justifies her position on Yahoo!:

http://finance.yahoo.com/columnist/a...eymatters/8424

"It's been hard not to take a shine to gold lately. In the past year, an
ounce of the precious metal has shot up from under $450 to more than
$646 as I write this. And plenty of bullion bulls think it could go to
$1,000 an ounce."

Great reasoning for changing a fundamental tenet of your advice, eh?

I can't stand her myself, and I think she "often" gives bad advice. My
wife has heard me rant about her many times (particularly when I
saw/heard/read the 20% advice above - I came unglued at the time,
providing loads of entertainment value for my wife).

Her gender is not an issue for me. As far as I know. But then maybe I
have latent misogynistic tendencies...

-Will

"joetaxpayer" <joetaxpayer[at]nospam.com> wrote
re Suz Orman
- quote -

You summarized what you say you heard on a Suze Orman show.
I do not know if it's accurate. Nor do I know if you
captured the entire context.

- quote -

It's also impossible to tell the context of this advice.

Joe, I am not going to argue with you on this. What I said
before stands.

Elle wrote:

- quote -

I've made remarks about her, as Mark noted, on my site, in regard to
specific advice she gave;
1) she advises a woman to take her entire cash savings of a few thousand
dollars, and pay off a car loan.
2) she advised a retired man that he should put 'up to 20%' of his
savings into gold.

I make no judgments based on her gender or affectation (as Ed says "in
your face obnoxious). I do think that advisors have an obligation to
offer sound advice, and I continue to find cases where she does not.
(But more than that, where the advice is dangerous)
I read very few "question and answer" columns, but I find little reason
to argue against Scott Burns, or for that matter, the woman who writes
the Q&A in Smart Money.

Kiosaki is in a league by himself, actually closer to Gallagher than to
anyone offering advice, sound or not.

JOE

"Elle" <honda.lioness[at]nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:RVe%g.18456$UG4.9698[at]newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
- quote -

I think many people feel that Suze Orman is in your face obnoxious.
It isn't so much that her information may or may not have value in every
instance.
Kiosaki gets his share of negatism as well.

"Elle" <honda.lioness[at]nospam.earthlink.net> writes:

- quote -

Have you considered that the throwaway negative comments
about her are mainly because she's by far the most well
covered on TV at the moment and that perhaps it has
nothing to do with her sex? The other folks you named
are much smaller fish. I can't think of any bigger
popular finance personality out there right now.

Moreover, you're reacting to a *positive* comment about her.

--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.
No HTML in E-Mail! -- http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow?
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting

"Mark Bole" <makbo[at]pacbell.net> wrote
- quote -

What I have observed is three throwaway comments about Orman
in the last several weeks here, without any concrete
justification provided for them. Groups.googling turns up
numerous vulgar comments directed at her on Usenet, though
mixed often with other posts saying her counsel is
essentially sound. I see no such throwaway or vulgar
comments, here or elsewhere on Usenet, directed at Clark
Howard, Dave Ramsey, Scott Burns, or even Kyosaki.

I have made my point and advise returning to the OP's
situation. I agree him/er giving us more information would
be more efficient.

Elle wrote:

- quote -

I wasn't criticizing, I was praising her for getting background
information before offering financial advice, contrasted to what often
happens in this group. But I was aware at the time of my comment what
was posted about Suze Orman at the joetaxpayer.com web site, whose reply
to my reply, I was replying to. (I *knew* I should have just sent him a
private e-mail, which was my first inclination...)

Why you would think that financial advice from a woman would be judged
on that basis alone?

-Mark Bole

"Mark Bole" <makbo[at]pacbell.net> wrote
- quote -

Burns, and many other financial advisors now popular in the
media. What she says differs little from what any of the
regulars here say. So I do not understand why she is so
popular to slight here, unless it is because she is a woman?
Please, folks, criticism of Kyosaki is constructive here.
Make your criticism of others in the media handing out
financial advice just as constructive.

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:42:02 -0500, joetaxpayer
<joetaxpayer[at]nospam.com> wrote:

- quote -

Amen to that. I believe that the essence of good personal finance is
to live within one's means. Further, that saving for the future -
part of which is a retirement plan - is an integral part of monthly
"expenses". So in this case my preference would be to first be saving
for the future (401k preferred, amount varies by age) before thinking
about how much and when for housing.

Of course, despite my brilliance and extraordinary good looks, nobody
agrees with everything I say.


-HW "Skip" Weldon
Columbia, SC

joetaxpayer wrote:

[...]Why do you object to focusing on the buy vs rent which is
- quote -

If I object to anything, it's trying to provide useful financial advice
with almost no useful facts to go by. For example, I think the best
advice anyone could give the OP is to pay down his consumer debt and
join a health club. Do you have any basis for disagreement, given what
we know about the OP's situation?

While it is refreshing to not see the routine "RTFM" replies that are
common in some other technically-oriented Usenet groups that I have
participated in, it should be incumbent on those requesting help to at
least give the financial planning equivalent of "what version of the
software are you running, what platform, what was the exact error
message, what else was going on before or during the problem", instead
of the more common and more useless request, "my computer used to work,
and now it doesn't, please help".

Heck, even Suze Orman usually asks more about the subject's background
than we have here before leaping in with her advice!

(I will pass this suggestion along to mifp_faq at pacbell dot net for
possible inclusion in the FAQ -- Tad Borek, if you are reading, please
note).

As for "buy vs. rent", this group does love that topic! I see it simply
as this:

"buy" = rent (implicit) + invest in real estate

"rent" = rent + invest in something else

An investment in real estate is very different from an investment in a
typical 401k (stocks, bonds, money market) in terms of liquidity,
volatility, legal issues, and expected rate of return. Either or both
can be wise, depending on the rest of the story -- which we don't have.

-Mark Bole

- quote -

later, and real house about 8 years from when I first started.

I would look to use 401k immediately. This money needs time to grow
and is an investment in your future.

I would think that you could buy property "anytime", and researching
this while using the 401k to save money is a good start.

Mark Bole wrote:

- quote -

OP will get very different replies if his rent is $600 vs buying
identical unit for $250K, or paying $2000 rent vs buying for $200K.
Either way, he posed the question within his text as [(401+Rent) or (Buy
Home)]. Why do you object to focusing on the buy vs rent which is
inextricably part of his decision process?

JOE

joetaxpayer wrote:

- quote -

I read the underlying question as "401k vs home ownership", much the
same as the subject of the post.

[...] but without more details,
- quote -


Of course he'll get vague answers, since the original question is
uselessly vague. The OP should add more information such as approximate
age, family status, career prospects, income level and current level of
debts/assets.

-Mark Bole