anoop wrote:

- quote -

You'd have to have a very high marginal retirement tax rate to do better
than a deductible IRA. Beating a non-deductible IRA with an index fund
is probably doable, however.

-Will

Alan Ballow wrote:
- quote -

I don't believe that's true. The general assumption is that income is
taxable unless proven otherwise.

Sounds like a good way to find out what they have
- quote -

I agree. With any luck, their records will help you determine what
portion is non-taxable.

Good Luck.

On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 17:16:55 -0500, Sandra Loosemore <sandra[at]frogsonice.com> wrote:
- quote -

It's a mess, I last filed one 2 years ago, but it was wrong, did not
have full totals. I think that I will simply try my best to calculate
my taxfree contributions to each IRA, and store that someplace where I
would not lose it, like in the computer.

i

Will Trice wrote:
- quote -

That's a bit of a bummer. If one were to invest in index funds leaving
it
untouched for many years, it seems like one would be better off doing
so in a taxable account especially in the case where the traditional
IRA
contribution was non-deductible.

Anoop

"anoop" <ghanwani[at]gmail.com> writes:

- quote -

Yes.

- quote -

No.

--
Rich Carreiro rlcarr[at]animato.arlington.ma.us

anoop wrote:

- quote -

It's all ordinary income.

-Will

Mark Freeland wrote:

- quote -

Would all of the earnings be treated as ordinary income? Or would
it be broken down into capital gains and ordinary income depending
on the investment mix?

Anoop

Sandra Loosemore wrote:
- quote -

accept your numbers. Sounds like a good way to find out what they have
and know.

"Ignoramus25712" <ignoramus25712[at]NOSPAM.25712.invalid> wrote in message
news:VaAZf.17983$bc.17119[at]fe44.usenetserver.com...
- quote -

http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq-kw133.html
"How do I request a copy of my tax return ...? Complete Form 4506, 'Request
for Copy of Tax Return' and mail it to the IRS ... along with a $39 fee for
each tax year requested. Copies are generally available for returns filed
in the current and past 6 years. In cases where an exact copy ... is not
needed, tax return and transcripts may be ordered. ... There is no charge
for the transcript ... Tax return transcripts are generally available for
the current and past three years."

May not be all of them, but it's a start.

--
Mark Freeland
nNeEwTs[at]sonic.net

Ignoramus25712 <ignoramus25712[at]NOSPAM.25712.invalid> writes:

- quote -

Well, sure, you can ask. Better to ask them instead of asking us, in
fact. ;-) Whether they will have any records to give you is another
story. How long ago was it that you last filed an 8606?

-Sandra the cynic

On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 13:28:05 -0500, Mark Freeland <nNeEwTs[at]sonic.net> wrote:
- quote -

traditional.

- quote -

That's a good assumption.

- quote -

Yes, I filed appropriate forms every year. I just do not have them.

- quote -

That's my another issue, I think that the totals in some years were
wrong (my accountant said that it does not matter).

- quote -

Exactly.

- quote -

Well, yeah, it is already the case that my IRA is considerably more
than the non-taxable contributions, but it is indeed a small
consolation.

What I would like to know is if I can just ask the IRS for copies of
all my 8606 forms.

i

On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 13:18:11 -0500, Rich Carreiro <rlcarr[at]animato.arlington.ma.us> wrote:
- quote -

Yes, I did, I just do not have those forms on hand.

- quote -

Well, sure, all I want to know is how much I contributed that is non
taxable.

i

"Ignoramus25712" <ignoramus25712[at]NOSPAM.25712.invalid> wrote in message
news:wPwZf.50356$gj5.38188[at]fe16.usenetserver.com...
- quote -

Clarification please. Traditional IRA (non-deductible) or Roth IRA? The
fact that you say there is a "mix" suggests the former, since one cannot mix
Roth and traditional IRAs. Subsequent comments assume traditional
non-deductible IRA.

- quote -

AFAIK, unless you filed form 8606 each tax year in which you made a
non-deductible contribution, that contribution will be considered taxable,
and you are unfortunately out of luck (unless you file amended returns for
the past few years). If you have been filing 8606 forms, then they keep a
running total of your non-deductible contributions, and that's the only
number you need (find the last 8606 that you filed).

(See form 8606, and especially the instructions for Line 2:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8606.pdf
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8606.pdf )

Others differ. For example, this article suggests that you could try
declaring on this year's 8606 the cumulative contributions for previous
years on line 2 (as above) despite not having filed it with prior returns:
http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/Kiplin.../02/01/1196973

However, even that still leaves you with the question of how to compute this
amount. You can (as the article suggests) try using whatever documentation
you do have available (5498s, annual IRA statements, etc.), but you would
also need to be able to show that you did *not* deduct them (meaning have
copies of your tax returns as well).

- quote -

Even if all contributions to a traditional IRA were non-deductible, all
earnings would be taxable. So the odds are that the majority (if not the
vast majority) of your money is taxable anyway (i.e. your IRA contributions
should more than double on average in value over the life of the IRA).
That's small consolation, though.

--
Mark Freeland
nNeEwTs[at]sonic.net

Ignoramus25712 <ignoramus25712[at]NOSPAM.25712.invalid> writes:

- quote -

Did you file a Form 8606 with your return each year you made
a non-deductible traditional IRA contribution? You should
have been, and it would have tracked the total amount of non-ded
contributions for you.

If not, you'll have to come up with the total as best you can, finding
whatever old statements you can, talking to your broker/fund company, etc.
and then filing an 8606 to document that total.

- quote -

Sorry -- it doesn't work that way. You're not allowed to do what
you want to do. For starters, for tax purposes, all your trad IRAs
are a single trad IRA, so there's no way to assign non-deductible
contributions to any particular account. The non-ded contributions
become a part of all trad IRA accounts no matter which account they
were made to. Further, non-deductible contributions come out pro-rata.
If the total of all your non-ded contributions is, say, 15% of the
total value of all your trad IRA account, then 15% of any trad IRA
distribution will be non-taxable and 85% will be taxable. Form 8606
is also used for figuring that.

--
Rich Carreiro rlcarr[at]animato.arlington.ma.us

I am in a little bit of a quandary. I have two IRAs, one made before I
got married, and one created after that.

The problem is that the money there is a mix of 401k money rolled over
(taxes deferred), and pesrnoal IRA contributions that were made with
taxed money.

My problem is that I do not think that I have all documentation
confirming the amounts of contributions. I may have some papers for
some years, but not all.

What can I do to at least make the best choices regarding all this.

I do not want to pay taxes from all my withdrawals when I retire, only
from contributions that were not taxed (401k).

I always made enough money to not be able to make my personal IRA
contributions tax deferrable.

what to do

Thanks

i