Thanks. The probable meaning occured to me, after I posted the message of
course.<g
--
_Bill_

In article <tQW_d.1442$uC2.5113[at]eagle.america.net> , "Bill" <no[at]no.comwrote:

- quote -

Multi-level marketing. While there is nothing illegal about
most MLM schemes, many operate in a grey area of legality.
Primera is a classic MLM scam. They recruit people off of
the street to become financial planners. These folks have
no background or training. All they do is go to a weekend
of religious-like training on how to be a member of their
cult-like organization. The products that Primerica sell
are poor performers, have long-term locks in them, and they
are vastly overpriced. They have to be in order to pay
out the huge amounts of commissions that flow across 7
levels of downlines.

I really don't care who you buy your financial products
from, but I do care that you get a good product for a
reasonable cost. If anyone pitches a Primerica product
to you, be sure to compare that to similar products on
the open market. You will find that load fees are less
on the open market, rates of returns on fixed investments
are often higher on the open market, interest rates for
loans are often less on the open market, and you are
not locked in for life on many of the open market products.

Typical things that Primerica try to do include:

a) selling you very expensive "lifetime" life insurance,
when you can get term for 1/20 of the cost. Term is
best for most people anyway since they will have few
responsibilities once their kids grow up, and most
people can go self-insured by that time due to their
retirement savings.

b) selling you a high-fee home re-finance at a higher
interest rate by telling you that you will save money
by going to a bi-weekly plan. In reality, most people
can get the same effect by paying their current loan
biweekly without doing a refi or paying a high fee,
and simply paying an extra payment once a year accomplishes
the same thing with no additional fees.

MLM can be a legitimate form of business. There are even
some legitimate MLM companies out there. The key is that
they have to have a product that is competitive on the
open market. That works for some unusual products that
have a hard time getting into stores like high-end skin
cream, high touch items like cosmetics, or odd products
like blue-green alge. But those that sell the $6 light
bulbs or $5000 water filters are simply scams wrapped
around a pyramid scam. Avoid them at all costs.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john[at]johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

MLM???

--
_Bill_

- quote -

Nothing wrong with how Quicken does it.

Im just the type of person who likes the idea of using
off the shelf "tools" such as spreadsheets or databases
like Access to do such things. Rather than using
Quicken

BUT.....Im not smart enough to take such general tools
(excel, access) and "make" them do what I want. <sigh
hence the question

In article <1111148050.078960.312870[at]o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> ,
"DM" <abkeck28[at]msn.com> wrote:

- quote -

Don't do this. Primerica is a MLM scam. They will not give you
advice that is in your best interest. Rather, they sell you
what makes them the most money. The reps are ex-shoe salesmen
and people off the street who go to a weekend seminar, and then
are turned loose as so-called financial planners. Don't let
one of these weekend wonders near your pocketbook, not unless
you want to learn about transfer payments (that, transferring
your money into their pockets).

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john[at]johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

<me[at]privacy.net> wrote in message
Re spreadsheets vs. something like Quicken:
- quote -

I have my "Elle's Expenses" Microsoft Works spreadsheet set up with months
of the year in 12 columns and category of expense in the rows. At the
moment I have about 13 rows, or 13 categories of expense types. Monthly
cash (or check) expenses for incidental things like the occasional soda pop
at the softball field go into my "Not credit carded" row. Once a day or so
I enter any cash expense as part of a sum for the "not credit carded" cell.
For instance, right now, my March expenses cell for "not credit carded"
contains:

=2.75+10+2.5+3+4+2+7.4

The 7.4 at the end is for the $7.40 check I paid for a book of postage
stamps today. My spreadsheet of course adds all the numbers up and displays
the total, but I can highlight the cell and see what you see above.

The 13 categories include phone bill, homeowners' association fee, property
taxes, gas-electric bill, water bill, health insurance, credit card bill,
etc. I massage the "credit card bill" cell a little when I charge, say the
water bill or health insurance, to my credit card. The goal of the
massaging is to try to make the credit card cell reflect mostly grocery
items: Food, cleaning supplies, auto supplies(!), etc.

The purpose of the detail in the categories is so I can track where I'm
getting hit hardest for inflation. If it's utilities, maybe I'll buy some
better windows for the house some time.

I've been doing this for only about 15 months now. It gives me peace of
mind. I'm thinking of adding a dedicated row for "Major House Maintenance
Savings Plan," (like a new roof in ten years) but that's easy to do. I'm
sure others would want to add a dedicated cell for auto repair expenses;
mortgage; etc.

What's wrong with the way Quicken does this?

"Elle" <elle_navorski[at]nospamearthlink.net> writes:

- quote -

One pays for a spreadsheet, too.

And aside from that, one pays for the use of a Spreadsheet with
one's *time* if not one's money. Not that I use Quicken's budget
stuff, but I do track spending on it because I'm already
entering every transaction anyway, so spending by category is
a free side effect.

Anyway, I prefer to spend my *time* on skiing, etc. Compared
to the value of my time setting up and maintaining a spreadsheet
(I used to use one for this sort of thing - back in, oh, '90),
the cost of Quicken is *way* way less.

Reinventing wheels and carving them by hand is rarely
the efficient thing to do when someone else has a
factory mass-producing excellent and effective ones very cheaply.

(That goes for many more things besides just Quicken, BTW)

As far as TurboTax, the likelihood of a bug in TT screwing
my taxes up is almost certainly far far lower than chance
that I'll miss something or miscalculate something if I do
it by hand. Professional tax preparers use specialized
software to do taxes, too, and for the same reasons. Their
software often can handle special cases better than TT or
TC, of course, but it's not like they write their own
spreadsheets for that stuff except in very very specialized
cases - and for the same reason - both more efficient and
more accurate most of the time.

There are exceptions. Certainly. But they are exactly
that - exceptions.



--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.
No HTML in E-Mail! -- http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow?
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting

- quote -

Oh Im not sure quicken IS better! Mater of fact I was
hoping maybe you could show me a way to quit using it

Example...Im using Quicken now....and track EVERYTHING
expense wise. Even if I buy a 50 cent soda at work I
enter it into Quicken

So I guess my question is.... how do I enter in a 50
cent transaction like soda above into and excel sheet?

Because
1. All I know about Quicken is that one usually has to pay money for it. I
prefer to spend my money on skiing, etc. :-)
2. If one has a computer, chances are it included some sort of perfectly
good spreadsheet software. Being acquainted with spreadsheets is a good
skill to have.
3. It's very easy to throw together a precisely customized spreadsheet of
one's expenses.
4. I personally don't want to trust too many canned programs to compute my
finances for me. Lots of people love Turbotax for their yearly 1040, for
example. I know several people I respect a lot (off line and online) who
recommend it. But they also concede it has had a few bugs in the past.

OTOH, certainly I know many people who swear by Quicken. If you use it, why
don't you say a little about how it works and what you like about it, with
particular attention to why you feel it's better than constructing one's
own spreadsheet?


<me[at]privacy.net> wrote
E wrote
- quote -

- quote -

Im curious as to why you recommend a spreadsheet?

Why not just use something like Quicken?

It seems to me that you have three goals at this time:

1. Raise your credit score, to achieve the lowest interest rate possible on
a future home mortgage
2. Save to buy a house
3. Save effectively for retirement.

1.
See http://retireplan.about.com/b/a/061747.htm , clicking on "read more,"
for a very good overview of your credit score, and very specific, easy to
understand steps for raising it. Some of what you said in your post about
this is flat out wrong, which should be good news.

2.
It sounds like you have made huge advances in managing your money. That's
fantastic; take some pride in this. May I suggest now putting your monthly
expenses on a spreadsheet? E.g. rows for the monthly electric bill, phone
bill, food, insurance, entertainment, etc. expenses. This will keep you
aware of exactly how much you can live on and how much you can save for a
house each month. Doing so also keeps one aware of when one is, shall we
say, over-indulging and maybe can cut back to save more. Where to put the
money while you're saving for a house? First, make sure you have six
months to a year of emergency expenses covered, with this money in a Money
Market fund. Then start investigating the cost of a house (or condo?) in
your area. www.realtor.com is a great place to start. Figure at least 20%
down, for now. If it will take at least two years to accumulate the down
payment, then use a bullet strategy of CDs. That is, buy CDs each month
that all mature in the same month--the month you want to get serious about
making a down payment on a house. Lastly, make sure you can actually afford
the house you're contemplating. In addition to the mortgage payment, there
are property taxes, insurance payments, a fund for upkeep of the house,
association fees, etc. Ask more about this here or elsewhere as you get
closer to having the down payment.

3.
People will differ on this, but IMO, it's absolutely very smart to start
off with all your retirement savings in an S&P 500 index fund. It's the
best choice you could make, in my opinion. But at some point, you will want
to start diversifying. To get you started on understanding how to diversify
(also known as "allocate one's portfolio for optimal return"), try

http://www.ifa.com/SurveyNET/ (Take the 49-question survey.)

http://www.smartmoney.com/oneasset/ (Fast but general.)

http://www.fairwinds.org/wizards/AssetAllocator.asp (Fast but general.)

www.vanguard.com (Click on: "Go to Personal Investors... " ; "Planning &
Education" near top; "Retirement Planning"; "I'm already saving... "; "How
should I allocate my assets" on the right, middle; "I accept" at the
bottom.)

Also, note other posters' comments about 401(k) and Roth IRA strategies.

In article <1111124382.287550.6180[at]o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> ,
"ManChild" <starritt[at]gmail.com> wrote:

- quote -

A bad chunk of advice that you have been given. You are always
better off to pay off these debts as soon as you can to minimize
the fees and interest. The best way to raise your credit score
is time. If you behave credit-wise, your score will go up perhaps
75 points a year.

- quote -

You do what everyone else does on our rung of the economic ladder.
Work steady and maximize your income. Upgrade yourself if you
have to. Max out your retirment account options, including 401K,
Roth, IRA, etc. Live as cheap as you can, rent a reasonable
place, avoid car loans, and save some money. When you are
truely ready (and not before), then get into a starter home.
A decade or so later, use the increase in the home value and
your value to move up to nicer home.

What is more important is what you don't do. Spending wildly,
buying lots of toys, accumulating debt, and buying a house
that is over your head are great ways to ensure you retire
broke or even in debt. Don't do these things, even though
most of your friends, relatives, and neighbors will be doing
it.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john[at]johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

Call your local Primerica Representative. They will put together a
comprehensive Financial Needs Analysis at no cost to you. I am a Rep in
Ohio, or I would personally work with you. Just as a general Rule,
Money Markets are a good place to save an Emergency Fund, money remains
easily accessed. As far as your 401k, you only want to put in what your
employer will match you. You will then want to max out your Roth IRA.
The Financial Plan will also help you plan the best way to pay down
your debt. If you need assistance finding a rep in your neck of the
woods, let me know.

Andrew

For the first time in a lot of years I have options. Limited options
but options regardless. I was divorced a couple of years back, and
walk away from a world where payments where late frequently, debt was
consuming and have spent two years paying everything on-time and am at
a point now where I can afford to take out all that remains of my debt
with the leftover cash in my checking account.

I live in Wisconsin - with is one of the states where debts incurred
during the marriage belong to both parties despite divorce. Despite
her agreement that she would take on the medical debts as part of the
settlement she hasn't paid them. Collections folk tell me that state
law overrides civil law in this matter than that I am still
responsible. I assume this means I would have to pay and then sue my
ex for the cash and its just to much agro. I am going to pay off $1900
of delinquent medical debt this month (11 accounts) and that should be
the end of anything negative on my credit reports again ever.

Once that is done, I will have a small car loan and a couple of credit
cards that I use all the time but pay off in full at the end of each
month. I am hoping that in a year or so I will be in a position to
purchase a home and have the ability to stash away about $15000 a year
toward a down payment. The prospect of this excites my however I worry
that my credit will still look dreadful even though my own accounts
have never had a late payment. My score is in the mid 500s.

I appreciate that to raise my credit score again I will have to use
credit, thus the credit cards and my reluctance to pay off my car loan
- I don't mind losing cash on interest payments to lower things
like my car insurance, future loan interest rates and so on however I
am tempted to pay it off and free up yet another $200 a month.

I guess my issue is a vague one in that I do not know how to move
forward from this point. My first experience at managing my cash was
in my marriage and it was a disaster. My last two years have turned me
into a frugal thrift monster who feels guilt about spending anything.
I am no longer in the position of paying off but paying myself and so
the call to purchase a home is stronger than ever. This is just new
territory for me, as a 29-year-old single guy who pays everything with
his first paycheck in the month and can all of a sudden save the second
I am lost.

I want my money to work for me, but I also what it available for the
home. CDs? How can I escalate the pace of improvement in my credit
score without actually spending money I don't want to spend? I see
folk talking about taking loans and paying them off when the first bill
comes in however there are no queues of people waiting to lend me money
and I am wary of spending for the sake of spending.

I have a 401k with about $4000 in it - at the moment its all in the
S&P 500 and I know that's also not smart. Should I pump the full 15%
or 11k a year into my account and then borrow against it for my down
payment in a year?

If I am fortunate enough to get a mortgage it will be on a modest home
with a monthly payment close to my rent. I'll be looking to double
or treble monthly payments for the first couple of years - the end
goal is to have the thing paid for long before I hit my mid 40s.

I don't mind aggressive investment and have the following funds
available and would appreciate advice in how to split up my $4k by
percentage. Lets face it - its not like I have that much in there to
lose. Thoughts?

SSgA Government Money Market Fund
SSgA Stable Value Fund
Scudder Fixed Income Fund - Class A
The George Putnam Fund of Boston - Class M
Fidelity® Advisor Equity Income Fund - Class T
American Century Income & Growth Fund - Advisor Class
SSgA S&P® 500 Index Fund
SSgA Large Cap Core Equity Fund
Fidelity® Advisor Growth Opportunities Fund - Class T
Janus Adviser Capital Appreciation Fund - Class I
T. Rowe Price Mid-Cap Value Fund - R Class
Strong Opportunity Fund - Advisor Class
Putnam OTC & Emerging Growth Fund - Class M
Scudder Mid Cap Growth Fund - Class A
SSgA MSCI EAFE Index Strategy Fund
Janus Adviser Worldwide Fund - Class I
PIMCO NFJ Small-Cap Value Fund - Class A
SSgA Russell® 2000 Index Strategy Fund
Scudder Small Cap Growth Fund - Class A
AllianceBernstein Global Technology Fund - Class A

What else can I do - the primary goal is the home and the long-term
investments. I want to retire in comfort and possibly early. I have
no intentions of getting married in the near future again but as I said
this is all new - I have so many choices and I just do not understand
how to make a plan that involves creating wealth as apposed to paying
other people off.

Help!