On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:02:15 CST, Here to there
<here[at]mylittlewhitehouse.com> wrote:

- quote -

This is a dedicated financial planning newsgroup. If we're going to
discuss old cars and synthetic body panels, at least try to tie it to
financial planning. <grin
-HW "Skip" Weldon
Columbia, SC

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 04:04:45 CST, Karen Younge <karenyounge[at]earthlink.net> wrote:
- quote -

Well, people tend to take reasonably good care of their cars while
they're still paying off their loans. So buying one that's just outside
of the typical loan period means you're probably not going to get one
in which the oil hasn't been changed since it rolled off the dealer's
lot. ;-)

I pretty much just ignore consumer's magazines. I only buy cars
from people I know, or from dealers where I can get complete service
records. While statistics showing the reliablity ( or lack
thereof ) of a model are interesting to look at, they don't tell you
a thing about how *one* particular car is likely to work. That
isn't to say that you shouldn't take things like high rates of
transmission failure in a particular model, etc, into account, but
it would be foolish to make purchasing decisions with only
the consumer groups as a guide.

At the moment, I'm really, really liking Acura. The lifetime
policy on their replacement brakes/mufflers/etc means that, for example, the
last 2 exhaust systems I've gotten from the dealer have been totally
free. I think he dreads seeing me drive up. ;-) My brakes will
probably last another year, but once they need work, they'll be
free for parts and labor as well. Never underestimate the value of
getting work done with factory parts from dealers.

- quote -

I don't think there are really all that many cars that have a substantial
amount of synthetic body panels, with the notable exception of Saturn.

- Rich

Karen Younge <karenyounge[at]earthlink.net> wrote:
- quote -

If you are mechanically inclined, it used to be that a visit to the
junkyard would sometimes be a solution to this problem.

I'll admit though, it does get to be a problem. I remember when a
pully that kept tension on a belt went in my old Datsun. I had to
call every shop in town, when I finally found a replacement part,
it had cyrillic lettering on it.

- quote -

Like anything else that you are planning to replace with a used item,
always keep your eyes open. If you see a vehicle on sale at the side
of the road, check out the price.

- quote -

My old truck is rusting out quite nicely, to the point where parts of the
floor have been replaced with sheetmetal.

Oddly, I think some people have the impression that a truck should be
rustfree, dentfree, and scratchfree, with a pristine interior.

- Jesse Meyer

--
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is
not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they
are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them
as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

Karen Younge wrote:

- quote -

I'm running 2 and 2. That is, I've bought 2 used and 2 new. I did not
use reliability ratings for the 2 used (they were impulse buys) and I
paid for it. Literally. For the 2 new I used Consumer Reports and have
been well rewarded with maintenance-free driving (other than scheduled).
At least until my first new car died a horrible death. Anyway, I've
had good luck with Consumer Reports, but my sample size is pretty small.

-Will

Here to there wrote:

- quote -

I'm another old-car owner. Mine's a 1980 Toyota Tercel, bought almost-new (it had
been
a rental car for a few months). Heaven knows why they decided not to keep these cars,

but their loss is my gain. I have found mine to be nearly bombproof, so one doesn't
necessarily have to give up reliability by driving an old car. It has only broken
down to
the extent of needing to be towed three or perhaps four times in all the years I've
owned
it. It amazes me that Toyota can make any money when their cars are so durable. With
some other makes I'd have been working on my second or even third one after 25 years.

- quote -

The difficulty I am running into now is, it's getting hard to find replacement parts.
Every
time it's in the shop, even for routine repairs, it takes a week or more due to the
scarcity
of parts. Fortunately my shop provides loaner cars, and what was a convenience at
first
has become essential because stays in the shop are now so long. One of these days
some
vital organ on this car is going to go blooey and I'll be unable to find another, and
that'll
be the end of "Bruce". Until that sad day, I'll continue to enjoy, as I have for the
last quar-
ter century, low cost (the car was just a hair over $5000 when I bought it), low
maintenance
cost, low insurance rates, low registration fees, and high mileage.

- quote -

Me too. I am not looking forward to my insurance cost skyrocketing when I
finally have to replace the car. I guessed it would go up to half again as much
as I am paying now, but if your figures are right, that's much too low, it'll be
more like twice or even three times as much. Even if (as I hope) I'm able to
pay cash for the car, that's a big bite out of my budget. I am hoping to nurse
my old car along until a used hybrid has come down into my price range.

- quote -

Why 5-10 years--new enough to be reliable, but old enough to be economical?
Have you found consumer magazines' used car/reliability ratings to be helpful
in picking good cars?

- quote -

Good heavens, is it still possible to buy a car that will *rust*? I thought
they were all made of fiberglass now (or whatever that stuff is). Shows how
long it's been since I went car-shopping. :^)


Karen

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 04:08:00 CST, Jesse Meyer <meyer_spammenot_[at]ideaone.net> wrote:
- quote -

I suspect that a large part of the myth that older vehicles are
unreliable is because they tend to be owned ( not always, mind you,
but usually ) by people who can't, or won't, perform regular
maintenance. People who buy new cars also tend to baby them for at
least a few years.

Personally, I've always have cars that were at least 5 to 10 years
old when I bought them - everything from a Ford Maverick to my
current vehicle, a 1991 Integra. I always keep them at least 6
or 7 years. None of them have stranded me by the side of the road,
while my co-workers with new cars tend to have all sorts of problems.
The only reason I ever get rid of a car is because, living in the Winter
Salt capital of the U.S., the body panels start rusting through and
fall off. :-)

- Rich


======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
Please trim the post to which you are responding.

Steve <sghelp1999[at]yahoo.com> wrote:
- quote -

In my experience, a brand new car has a good chance of "burn-in failure"
that increases the risk considerably (similar to most products).

Although I don't have the statistics to back me up, I would expect that
the most reliable vehicles would be a few years old.

Very old vehicles should have a good chance of failure, but I'm not
seeing it in my experience. Perhaps poorly maintained or fundamentally
flawed vehicles burn out before reaching a very old age.

As for finances, a new vehicle requires both vehicle payments (say,
$200 or so a month, low end) and full coverage (depends on the driver,
location and insurance company, but say $125 or so). That's $325/month
for a new car, or $3900/year.

Collision costs about $50 a month, which would be $600/year.

That's a difference of $3300 a year. Tires and scheduled maintenance
are the same between new and old cars, which leaves repairs. I put a
fraction of $3300 into vehicle repairs, easily less than $1000.

I'm seeing a savings of about $2k/year, which is more than a couple
bucks a month in my book.

- Jesse Meyer

Anecdote:

When it rains heavily, I see plenty of new automobiles stalled on the
road, unable to drive through three or four inches of water.

My older vehicle does quite fine. Its 25 years old.

--
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is
not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they
are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them
as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

In article <1104711578.725725.175890[at]f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> ,
"Steve" <sghelp1999[at]yahoo.com> wrote:

- quote -

How do you determine how reliable a car is? Is there some kind
of physical test you can run, and get an answer back that it is
or is not reliable? How about past history. Lets say a car
breaks down once. Is it now unreliable even after it is fixed?
How about a new car that breaks down a week after you buy it.
Is it still a reliable car after it is fixed?

The point that I am making is that the reliability of car is
mostly a metal accounting number that is in your head. A
well maintained car with 300,000 miles can be just as reliable
as a new car. In fact, there are new cars that are lemons,
and a car with a proven track record can be statistically
far more reliable than this new car lemon.

Any car can break down. If your job depends on you getting
to work at a certain time, and you have no leeway, then leave
for work early enough so that if you do break down, you can
make an alternate arrangement to get to work. If you have to,
abandon your broken down car on the side of the road and take
a taxi to work. It is better to pay the $20 taxi fee than
lose your job.

I would call the stress of an inflexible job to be far worse
than the stress of having an older proven automobile. My
biggest suggestion would be to look around for a more
rational job that has flex hours or at least some kind of
leeway in the start time.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john[at]johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

"Studies have shown that, on average, you will never spend more money
on car repairs than what a new car payment is. Put another way, you
will nearly always do better fixing an old car than buying a similar
new car. You may give up having a car you can trust, though a
properly maintained older car should be almost as reliable as a new
car (an ignored old car will be a problem child)."

I do not totally agree with that. I agree financially it makes sense,
but stress-wise, I would rather have something reliable taking me to
work where I can make more money to do either. If I am late 2 or 3
times to my job, I am canned. So I would rather have a reliable car
even if it's a couple bucks more a month.

You can learn a lot more at
http://www.help-debt-relief.com/cred....debt.loan.php
Hope this helps.
-Steve
http://www.help-debt-relief.com/