- quote -

Posted: "Asset protection from long term health care."

Read: Son wants to stick taxpayers with bill in the event father needs
nursing home care, then better to inherit father's wealth.

I just *love* euphemism.

Gary C <Clem_Kadiddlehopper[at]crazygooginhiemer.com> wrote:

- quote -

Purchasing an annuity might be part of the solution so that your father
won't have to worry about outliving his assets.

--
Ron

"Ed Zollars, CPA" <ezollar[at]mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ceavss01s71[at]news2.newsguy.com...
- quote -

Elderlaw attorney eh? Thanks Ed.

- quote -

How VERY true.

- quote -

What worries me (us) is the fact that he is the last of the Mohicans!
Everyone else's death was sudden, and much younger.

- quote -

"Elizabeth Richardson" <erichktn[at]worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4ONNc.341038$Gx4.340878[at]bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
- quote -

I'm a business owner, and I didn't choose this path to be poor, or even
mediocre.

America is the land of opportunity, for those that want one.

"Property is the fruit of labor -- property is desirable -- is a positive
good in the world. That some should be rich, shows that others may become
rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise." --
Abraham Lincoln

Life pays the salary we ask of it. Some don't ask for much, and they get
what they ask for. Some ask for more, and we get what we ask for.

- quote -

If you don't think successful people are interesting, then you don't know
any. I am surrounded by them every day, so I obviously know more about them
than you do.

Why does one want to mingle with successful people? This should be obvious,
but apparently you missed it.

A mentor once told me that I would only be as successful as my five closest
friends. I have found this to be true. Birds of a feather, flock together
isn't a myth. Successful people tend to associate with other successful
people. If one wants to be successful, they should seek out the company of
others of a like mind, inculding those who have already made it.

If an entrepreneur has an idea, but no capital, he'll likely not get
anywhere without borrowing too much money from a bank that isn't in a
position to help, other than loan money. If he has friends who have excess
capital, who are also entrepreneurial and willing to accept risks, then he
can obtain seed money from an angel investor on much better terms than the
bank offers, plus obtain mentorship that can make all the difference in the
world. In my home town, there are hundreds of angel investors, because I
live in the entreprenurial capital of the United States.

Successful business owners have large networks of personal relationships --
friends -- which enables them to enjoy economies of scale that cash alone
can't buy. These friends are other successful business owners, in the same,
as well as other, industries. How does one cultivate friends? They go to
the same places -- the same schools, the same parties, the same social
events, the same country clubs, the same restaurants, the same bars, etc.
Quite a few of my clients that have charitable intent have enjoyed
fantastic, albeit unforseen, benefits of making their intent known to the
beneficiaries. One of those benefits is invitation only receptions where
other successful people mingle. I'm talking about the people in the
community that everyone knows of, but only a select few may know on a
personal basis. You see their pictures in the paper and on the covers of
magazines. An opportunity to meet them in person, on a favorable basis, can
pay incredible dividends. The most successful are often the most willing to
share, and many actively seek to mentor other budding entreprenuers.

This forum is about financial advisors, and some of us deal with successful
people, including the wealthy. This forum is not about interesting poor
people. I don't find poor people interesting.

Brent D. Gardner, ChFC
Chartered Financial Consultant
http://members.cox.net/brentdgardner1378/

"Be ever questioning. Ignorance is not bliss. It is oblivion. You don't go
to heaven if you die dumb. Become better informed. Learn from other's
mistakes. You could not live long enough to make them all yourself." - Hyman
George Rickover (1900-86), Admiral, US Navy, advocated development of
nuclear subs & ships

The Chartered Life Underwriter (CLU) and Chartered Financial Consultant
(ChFC), designations owned and exclusively offered by The American College,
signify the highest standards of academic study and professional excellence
in the financial services industry.




======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
The purpose of this newsgroup is detailed in the charter which can be found at http://www.algebra.com/~mifp/Charter.txt

Gary C wrote:

- quote -

If the concern is long term care, what you are looking for is
actually an elderlaw attorney rather than an estate planning
specialist. A similar set of trade-offs come into play, though.

If the point of this is to qualify for state assistance, then you
end up having to move the assets out of your father's control for a
period before he would begin to draw aid. That generally is *not*
something an 80 year old who is not facing going into a nursing home
tomorrow morning is going to feel comfortable with--that is, we
impoverish your father today in order to make sure you end up with
money *in case* he'd end up needing care.

At age 80, I suspect simply insuring against this isn't going to be
a viable solution, especially if you have some "extra" reason to
worry about your father ending up in care (such as a family history
of the need for care in the mid-80s).

--
Ed Zollars, CPA
Phoenix, Arizona

"Ed Zollars, CPA" <ezollar[at]mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ce5m4t0224a[at]news4.newsguy.com...
- quote -

This must be done for my father, who is turning 80 and in
perfect health *now*. I am the only heir. Asset protection
from long term health care is the concern.

"Elizabeth Richardson" <erichktn[at]worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:_7ZNc.146237$OB3.17226[at]bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
- quote -

Nor bird dog their business!

- quote -

Tad:
Thanks for the URL's to reasearch.

"Tad Borek" <borekfm[at]pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:%CvNc.1090$bI1.482[at]newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
- quote -

"Harlan Lunsford" <hlunsford[at]bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:vpTNc.31377$QO.7083[at]bignews5.bellsouth.net...
- quote -

Many of us don't have clients, we're just interested in our own financial
planning, which was appeared to be the original poster's interest. He's
probably going to be one of the wealthy clients you guys are after, but that
doesn't mean he'd want to mingle with the wealthy just because they're
wealthy.

Elizabeth Richardson

Elizabeth Richardson wrote:
- quote -

reply was "Cause that's where the money is." You may not remember
him, though.

anyway, getting to associate with the rich and famous leads to getting
their business and taking them on as clients.

Also explain why I don't have a lot of wealthy clients! lol

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

"Brent D. Gardner, ChFC" <bgardner20[at]cox.net> wrote in message
news:ztCNc.49807$ve2.16213[at]okepread05...
Benefits during
- quote -

Brent, you seem to have a fixation on the wealthy. Why? Why would I give a
rat's ass about mingling with someone because s/he is wealthy? Wouldn't it
make more sense to want to mingle with someone because s/he is interesting?
I don't find wealthy/interesting synonymous.

Elizabeth Richardson

"Ed Zollars, CPA" <ezollar[at]mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ce5m4t0224a[at]news4.newsguy.com...
- quote -

Generally, I agree, but there's one thing I think that is worth mentioning:
People with charitable intent can indeed enjoy benefits while alive of doing
estate planning today. If one establishes a Charitable Remainder Trust (CRT)
with provisions to change the named beneficiaries during life, one will find
that the beneficiaries become the donor's new best friend. Benefits during
life can include invitations to private functions where the wealthy and
famous can mingle, as well as the not-so-wealthy or not-so-famous who happen
to be charitably inclined. These networking opportunities are truly
unsurpassed, with societal benefits of literally unimaginable proportions.

Most 501c3's will go out of their way to cater towards those who have named
them in a CRT, especially if they KNOW about it. Sure, some want their
donation to be private, but some want their names and donations (or
potential donations) known by the public, for a variety of reasons.
Corporations rarely donate for the sole sake of helping somebody, and only a
fool gives away $1 to get back $0.50, so the tax angle is often exaggerated.
No, companies, like individuals, give so that they enjoy a living benefit,
including, but not limited to, good public relations.

On the other hand, if one donates to a trust withOUT the provisions to
change the bene, the may find that they are quickly forgotten by the named
benes. There are some really angry old rich people who picked a cheap
attorney to draft the docs, and they found out the hard way that sometimes
its best to pay the Cadillac price, if they want the Cadillac ride.

- quote -

This is SO true, but not just of professionals. Plenty of amateur arm-chair
types here, and elsewhere, think that THEY know what someone ELSE should do
with their money. These faulty assumptions make for great laughs at social
events.

Brent D. Gardner, ChFC
Chartered Financial Consultant
http://members.cox.net/brentdgardner1378/

"Be ever questioning. Ignorance is not bliss. It is oblivion. You don't go
to heaven if you die dumb. Become better informed. Learn from other's
mistakes. You could not live long enough to make them all yourself." - Hyman
George Rickover (1900-86), Admiral, US Navy, advocated development of
nuclear subs & ships

The Chartered Life Underwriter (CLU) and Chartered Financial Consultant
(ChFC), designations owned and exclusively offered by The American College,
signify the highest standards of academic study and professional excellence
in the financial services industry.

Gary C wrote:
- quote -

That's a good start. If that dead-ends you could call your local (or
state's) bar association, most give referrals to different practice
areas. Or try the ABA though that'll turn up a big list:
http://www.abanet.org/

There's also a (small) association that might point you to someone in
your area:
www.naepc.org

-Tad

Gary C wrote:

- quote -

Estate planning is a broad, multi-disciplinary field. But it
generally starts with the legal documents (wills and trusts) that
take effect when you die.

Most CPAs who specialize in tax matters will be able to refer you to
one or more estate planning attorneys they've worked with, so that
would be a good place to get started.

However, the first move is for you to be clear on what you *want*
and *expect* from estate planning. It's important to remember that
*YOU* are not going to see any personal benefit from true estate
planning--by definition, the estate plan comes into play after you
have died, so you won't be around to enjoy the benefit <grin> . So
this will generally be a process that costs *you* money and for
which someone else will eventually obtain any benefits.

Key first question--if you died today, what things would need to be
taken care of? Do you have a large set of assets that would need to
distributed to heirs and perhaps even a potential estate tax
liability (the estate tax kicks in after $1.5 million of combined
lifetime and at death transfers)? Of is your issue more one of who
would take care of your minor children? Making up lost income for
your spouse and children?

Second key question--before the professionals (including myself
<grin> ) confuse the issues with all the "neat techniques" they can
use, you first need to be clear on what you want to accomplish.
Different people have very different goals, and that's fine--you
need a plan tailored to your goals. Only if you are clear on where
you'd like to be can a professional help you get there. And don't
get distracted by taxes--saving taxes is not really generally the
final goal, though it's a very useful distraction that can be used
to get you to pay for a complex plan that in the end gets in the
way. Rather, transferring funds to your heirs may be the real goal,
and then if saving taxes works towards that goal, that is fine.

So that brings up the final issue of choosing the
professional--whatever professional you use, you want someone who
first listens to *your* goals rather than imposes his/her goals on
you. I know many professionals who tend to assume that all
individuals have exactly the goals *they* do and don't even see that
they are starting out with a potentially flawed assumption from the
start.

As well, whatever professionals you use should always be willing to
point out the warts in the steps they are suggesting you take.
*EVERY* plan has potential "gotchas" if things don't work out as
expected, and a good honest professional will point this out.
Someone who is more interested in getting you signed up for this
deal so they can move on to the next paying client will tend to
totally ignore that aspect, instead burying it deep in disclosure
papers they ask you to sign in passing (the old "see, you agreed I
told you about that!" defense <grin> ).

--
Ed Zollars, CPA
Phoenix, Arizona

They say you should ask people you know if they're happy
with their estate planner. I don't know anyone that ever used one.

So, how does one go about finding an estate planner?

Ask my CPA, or my banker?