No I believe you, I misunderstood the post, sorry.

"Brent D. Gardner, ChFC" <bgardner20[at]cox.net> wrote in message
news:2KsXb.89966$ay1.23966[at]okepread05...
- quote -

"TooTall" <TooTall[at]TooTall.com> wrote in message
news:102r34iesn3o996[at]corp.supernews.com...
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Then you are confused. We were talking about moving money from a
nonqualified annity to an IRA as a rollover or transfer. This cannot be
done. It is illegal. Period.

If you don't believe me, fine, but you have no choice but to believe the
Service. Read Publication 590. The rules are extremely clear, and they agree
with me 100%.

Now, next time you want to chime in, get on the right subject. =)

Brent D. Gardner, ChFC
Chartered Financial Consultant
http://members.cox.net/brentdgardner1378/

"Be ever questioning. Ignorance is not bliss. It is oblivion. You don't go
to heaven if you die dumb. Become better informed. Learn from other's
mistakes. You could not live long enough to make them all yourself." - Hyman
George Rickover (1900-86), Admiral, US Navy, advocated development of
nuclear subs & ships

The Chartered Life Underwriter (CLU) and Chartered Financial Consultant
(ChFC), designations owned and exclusively offered by The American College,
signify the highest standards of academic study and professional excellence
in the financial services industry.

- quote -


"Brent D. Gardner, ChFC" <bgardner20[at]cox.net> wrote in message
news:G%cXb.89867$ay1.48543[at]okepread05...
- quote -

"TooTall" <TooTall[at]TooTall.com> wrote in message
news:102olb06s9qpp50[at]corp.supernews.com...
- quote -

Brent D. Gardner, ChFC
Chartered Financial Consultant
http://members.cox.net/brentdgardner1378/

"Be ever questioning. Ignorance is not bliss. It is oblivion. You don't go
to heaven if you die dumb. Become better informed. Learn from other's
mistakes. You could not live long enough to make them all yourself." - Hyman
George Rickover (1900-86), Admiral, US Navy, advocated development of
nuclear subs & ships

The Chartered Life Underwriter (CLU) and Chartered Financial Consultant
(ChFC), designations owned and exclusively offered by The American College,
signify the highest standards of academic study and professional excellence
in the financial services industry.

Not true, I just rolled over 6000 shares of my company stock as a
certificate without selling.



"Brent D. Gardner, ChFC" <bgardner20[at]cox.net> wrote in message
news:TiTPb.26829$ii6.19862[at]okepread05...
- quote -

"KSB" <nospam[at]nospam.net> wrote in message
news:6taQb.6486$O22.1700922[at]news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
- quote -

Send me an email, I'll give you some ideas that might make sense.

Brent D. Gardner, ChFC
Chartered Financial Consultant
http://members.cox.net/brentdgardner1378/

"Be ever questioning. Ignorance is not bliss. It is oblivion. You don't go
to heaven if you die dumb. Become better informed. Learn from other's
mistakes. You could not live long enough to make them all yourself." - Hyman
George Rickover (1900-86), Admiral, US Navy, advocated development of
nuclear subs & ships

The Chartered Life Underwriter (CLU) and Chartered Financial Consultant
(ChFC), designations owned and exclusively offered by The American College,
signify the highest standards of academic study and professional excellence
in the financial services industry.

"Mark0Young" <mark0young[at]aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040123145550.29660.00002596[at]mb-m24.aol.com...
- quote -

There is no such thing as an UNqualified annuity contract.

- quote -

Surrender charges can be avoided, easily, but not with the two companies you
mentioned. They don't know how.

Brent D. Gardner, ChFC
Chartered Financial Consultant
http://members.cox.net/brentdgardner1378/

"Be ever questioning. Ignorance is not bliss. It is oblivion. You don't go
to heaven if you die dumb. Become better informed. Learn from other's
mistakes. You could not live long enough to make them all yourself." - Hyman
George Rickover (1900-86), Admiral, US Navy, advocated development of
nuclear subs & ships

The Chartered Life Underwriter (CLU) and Chartered Financial Consultant
(ChFC), designations owned and exclusively offered by The American College,
signify the highest standards of academic study and professional excellence
in the financial services industry.

In article <ezRPb.1313$6g7.1034493[at]news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> , KSB
<nospam[at]nospam.net> writes:

- quote -

If her total premiums are more than the current value of the annuity, she could
liquidate that annuity and use the net loss as a miscelaneous investment
expense on Schedule A in the 2% AGI exclusion section. It probably wouldn't
help her taxes unless she also has other substantial deductions for that
section of Schedule A (e.g., unreimbursed employee expenses like union dues,
investment expenses, safe deposit box) and her itemized deductions exceed her
standard deduction.

One possibility is to do a "1035 exchange" to another annuity provider.

If your client has an employer-sponsored retirement account with TIAA-CREF, she
could contact TIAA-CREF and have them arrange for a "1035 exchange" into a
TIAA-CREF annuity. I don't know if they offer unqualified annuities to those
without an employer-sponsored retirement account with them.

Vanguard is another possibility.

Withdrawal of gains from an unqualified annuity are taxable and, if the person
is under 59.5 years old, subject to 10% penalty. Return of premiums are neither
taxable nor penalized, if I recall correctly. "Gains" would be the balance in
excess of the premiums paid to date.

There may be surrender charges with either a "1035 exchange" or an outright
liquidation. Surrender charges would reduce the amount of gains before you
calculate the taxes.

TIAA-CREF: http://www.tiaa-cref.org

Vanguard: http://www.vanguard.com

Mark A. Young

Small annuity ($3300), big expenses.
KSB

"Brent D. Gardner, ChFC" <bgardner20[at]cox.net> wrote in message
news:TiTPb.26829$ii6.19862[at]okepread05...
- quote -

KSB wrote:

- quote -

First thing, you can't "rollover" an annuity held outside an
IRA into a Roth IRA. Only other those in Roth IRAs or (if
you are eligible to convert) regular IRAs could be moved
directly. So you would need to cash it out, pay any tax,
penalty and contractual obligation (a deferred sales charge
may be due on surrender at this point), and then, if
eligible, make a 2003 or 2004 Roth IRA *contribution* to the
account.

As well, if the value of the annuity was greater than her
allowed contribution, that amount could not be contributed
to the Roth IRA.

Like Brent, I'd interested in knowing why she wants to do
this. Is she merely looking to "simplify" her financial
situation? Does she have other funds that could be used to
fund a Roth IRA contribution and is she eligible to make
one? How much gain would be triggered if she surrendered
the annuity and would there be any fees imposed?

--
Ed Zollars, CPA
Phoenix, Arizona

"KSB" <nospam[at]nospam.net> wrote in message
news:ezRPb.1313$6g7.1034493[at]news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
- quote -

All IRA contributions must be in CASH. If she has gain in the annuity, it
will be subject to income tax and the 10% excise tax.

Why does she want to get rid of the annuity?

Brent D. Gardner, ChFC
Chartered Financial Consultant
http://members.cox.net/brentdgardner1378/

"Be ever questioning. Ignorance is not bliss. It is oblivion. You don't go
to heaven if you die dumb. Become better informed. Learn from other's
mistakes. You could not live long enough to make them all yourself." - Hyman
George Rickover (1900-86), Admiral, US Navy, advocated development of
nuclear subs & ships

The Chartered Life Underwriter (CLU) and Chartered Financial Consultant
(ChFC), designations owned and exclusively offered by The American College,
signify the highest standards of academic study and professional excellence
in the financial services industry.

I have a client with a small ($3300) annuity (non-qualified). She would like
to get rid of it and rollover into her existing Roth IRA. She is under 59
1/2. Is this possible and how can I eliminate or minimize any tax
consequences.

KSB