"user" <user[at]iwantnospam.com> wrote in message
news:slrnbv9cb2.vr2.user[at]localhost.localdomain...
- quote -

Rich,

I thought I smelled SPAM...Our moderators must have the sniffles.

Brent D. Gardner, ChFC
Chartered Financial Consultant
http://members.cox.net/brentdgardner1378/

"Be ever questioning. Ignorance is not bliss. It is oblivion. You don't go
to heaven if you die dumb. Become better informed. Learn from other's
mistakes. You could not live long enough to make them all yourself." - Hyman
George Rickover (1900-86), Admiral, US Navy, advocated development of
nuclear subs & ships

The Chartered Life Underwriter (CLU) and Chartered Financial Consultant
(ChFC), designations owned and exclusively offered by The American College,
signify the highest standards of academic study and professional excellence
in the financial services industry.

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:44:55 CST, j.b. <vlicrest[at]yahoo.com> wrote:
- quote -

Ummmm.... how did you order an ebook from a website that didn't
exist before Dec 1, 2003, and "use that system for about 3 months"?

---
whois personalbudgetpower.com
THEDAVEWAY.COM
P.O. Box 240171
Montgomery, AL 36124
US

Domain name: PERSONALBUDGETPOWER.COM

Administrative Contact:
Moore, Dave DAVE[at]GARGIN.COM
P.O. Box 240171
Montgomery, AL 36124
US
334-314-1113
Technical Contact:
Verve Hosting, DNS dns[at]vervehosting.com
PO Box 431143
Pontiac, MI 48341
US
+1.2487457132 Fax: +1.2487457134



Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
Record last updated on 01-Dec-2003.
Record expires on 01-Dec-2004.
Record Created on 01-Dec-2003.
---

And how come the initials in your name are the same as the
author of the book?

- Rich

I was in the SAME SITUATION about a year ago, debt debt debt... so I
got desperate and bought a bunch of ebooks and hardcopy books at the
book store not know what to do and I didnt wanna go to a financial
advisor...
one that helped me out the most was one called personal budget
power... after using that system for about 3 months, it was as if I
had an extra paycheck coming in to my checking account, because it
helped me save so much money.

it was an ebook, which i was sekptical about buying (or beleiving in)
but it must work because now the only debt I have is a car loan which
will be paid off in 11 months... and it is a 2003 model car!

Oh, the web address should be www.personalbudgetpower.com ... I could
check to make sure, but I am too lazy... highly recomended, does work.
at least for me...

richard

Believe me, I won't be working that much! Fortunately I don't *need* to work
an extra job, but if I were to find something part-time that paid fairly
well and was not too much of a burden time-wise I would consider it.
Certainly not at the expense of too much family time though, for sure. But
back to the original point - I can say "not at the expense of too much
family time though" only because my wife and I have been fiscally
responsible enough to ensure I wouldn't have to make such sacrifices in
times like these. The OP was not and should, IMO, get another job. I was
insulted because yes, I've thought about getting additional work. I'll
probably never do it. But I'm getting by just fine (even continuing saving a
large amount of our income each month and investing it) and I was
considering it so I could save more, and this guy posts with an
attitude.....ugh, forget it : )

"John A. Weeks III" <john[at]johnweeks.com> wrote in message
news:121220032209563263%john[at]johnweeks.com...
- quote -

"John A. Weeks III" <john[at]johnweeks.com> wrote in message news:<121220032209563263%john[at]johnweeks.com> ...
- quote -

I would add that having a passion for what one does helps. Two years
ago my financial picture looked bleak- income met expenses, no
savings, money was spent into an abyss which I still can't figure
out...

I now have siginicant savings (generated from watching my money and
working a second "job" coaching soccer. The second job is for fun
more than anything, just a bonus which I now get paid for.

It would help to have a hobby. If you become good enough at it, you
can/will make money. If you do the hobby right, your kids can spend
time with you doing something you enjoy. With any luck your kids will
enjoy it too.

Lie isn't impossible, you just have to work at it.

cya!

Jim

In article <rPtCb.152$D66.98[at]nwrdny03.gnilink.net> , mark
<mark2741[at]verizon.net> wrote:

- quote -

Mark, I'd like you to carefully reconsider what you have posted.
As a kid, my parents worked very hard to provide a nice home and
make sure that us kids had everything we needed within reason.
But at the time, I certainly would have traded everything just
to have more time as a family. These years go by so quickly, and
you don't get 2nd chances at raising a family. Spend the time
with your wife and kids, and don't worry if the neighbors have
new cars or more toys. You don't want your kids to remember you
as the guy who spent all of his time at the office because your
status reports were more important than your kids. Having money
is nice, and I wouldn't mind you getting a part time job for
an additional 8 hours a week (so long as your main job doesn't
run past 40 hours), but given the choice above, your family
would probably choose the latter rather than the former.

-john-

--
================================================== ==================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john[at]johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ==================

I emailed you with my empathy, but I do have one thought I'd like to make
public here on this NG...

I am in my early 30's and have a recent addition to my family (8 month old,
our first). My wife, although we made an agreement years ago that she
wouldn't, decided to stay home and not work, to be with our baby. After
seeing what daycare is all about (at least the day care we enrolled her in
originally), I was fine with her decision. A huge financial sacrifice
though.

We're getting by just fine. Of course, I don't have the disposable income I
once had to spend on dinners out, new toys (for me), etc. And that is a
difficult thing to adjust to when you are used to always having money in
your pocket waiting to be spent....(although I wish I had saved more for
sure!).

Nowadays, I'm seriously considering getting a part-time job in addition to
my full-time career. Will I have to spend a lot less time with my baby?
Absolutely. But what is better? My baby growing up and us barely getting by
treading financial water, or me at home along with my wife spending time
with the baby? I vote for the former.

So why did I reply with this diatribe? Because I resent your idea that
somehow getting off your ass and getting another job, in lieu of spending
time with your kids, is a bad idea. You and your spouse got yourselves and
your kids (by default) into a big financial mess and now something has to
give, and that is you will now have to sacrifice your personal time and get
another job. It's the right thing to do. Of course, the alternative is you
could stay at home and be with your kids, all the while fielding calls from
creditors and explaining to your youngins' why the banks keep calling...

Can you tell you touched a nerve? : )
"Things Planet Earth" <thingsplanetearth[at]NOSPAM.CA> wrote in message
newsjIBb.639198$6C4.514570[at]pd7tw1no...
- quote -


======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
Request: To save clutter, please consider trimming the post to which you respond. Thank you. -HWW

I appreciate the help from everyone. I realize my problem.
It has taken me a long time to find out but I have.
I am not blaming anyone else, I merely posted the circumstances in full to
avoid anyone replying to my post with things such as "boy, the dealer sure
ripped you off"
or "why did your income decrease" etc etc.

I realize this is MY problem and I am seriously working on things and I am
certain this is the end for me. I have entered financial counseling and I
have been reading THE MILLIONARE NEXT DOOR and a few other great books and
programs. I also have purchased a used set of Dave Ramsey's FINANCIAL PEACE
UNIVERSITY program. I don't smoke or drink. I buy the cheapest items and
never eat out nor do I buy expensive clothes.
So I am not an abuser of income. I just spent way too much on automobiles. I
now know that my previous problems in my credit history were also related to
vehicles.
Although I NEVER had a car reposessed I now realize that the reason I could
not pay my other bills was because I was using all my money on car payments.
I have now learned that I can buy a $2000 car and there is NO WAY I would
have to spend $600 a month for 6 years on maintenance. So it is simply
better for someone
of my income to buy an older car.

The original reason for my post was simply to see if anyone knew more about
auto leases and maybe another way to get out of debt without further
damaging credit.

I have spoke with the bank who I am leasing from and they have agreed to
"waive" the 3 month penalty and they will even permit me to sell the truck
and will let me pay the remainder over time. I appreciate them letting me do
this. With a little luck I will only wind up owing $5000 and then I can work
hard to pay it off. As for my wife's car...we looked into refinancing it
with a regular bank and they declined, however, they did say the ONLY reason
was our debt was a little high and our income was a little low but credit
was ok enough to approve. So with another job (part time) and losing my $600
a month truck payment we can probably get her car refinanced at maybe 8 or
10% and then try and pay extra to kill that debt.

Thanks again for your comments and if anyone has any other helpful advice I
am all ears



"Sgt. Sausage" <nobody[at]nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3fd935ec$0$20869$a0465688[at]nnrp.fuse.net...
- quote -

"John A. Weeks III" <john[at]johnweeks.com> wrote in message
news:111220031742039067%john[at]johnweeks.com...
- quote -

In the old days, they actually verified income, and called your
references. One had to provide references just to get a bank account.

- quote -

As I see it, the laws benefit the lender most. Perhaps usury limits are
too high. If the loan isn't profitable, they wouldn't give money to people
who live in the BOHICA position their entire lives.

- quote -

Agreed. I don't like more laws. And I'm fond of repeating that we can't
legislate safety and outlaw stupidity. I just see too much over loaning. I
fell into the trap myself. Digging out was the most painful thing I've done.
When I see others doing it, I want to shout from the rooftops "STOP!"

Bankruptcy, like marriage, is too easy. I read the daily record, and I see
people routinely filing for amounts that a person on minimum wage could pay
off (excluding medical, disability, etc.) When I see a politician talking
about the "poor getting poorer" I think of the easy access to debt, which I
cite as a major contributing factor.

Brent D. Gardner, ChFC
Chartered Financial Consultant
http://members.cox.net/brentdgardner1378/

"Be ever questioning. Ignorance is not bliss. It is oblivion. You don't go
to heaven if you die dumb. Become better informed. Learn from other's
mistakes. You could not live long enough to make them all yourself." - Hyman
George Rickover (1900-86), Admiral, US Navy, advocated development of
nuclear subs & ships

The Chartered Life Underwriter (CLU) and Chartered Financial Consultant
(ChFC), designations owned and exclusively offered by The American College,
signify the highest standards of academic study and professional excellence
in the financial services industry.

Dude, I don't know how to tell you this, but it's going to take years
to get out of this mess. Years.

See below for further responses.

- quote -

You didn't learn the first time.

You didn't learn the second time.

Now you're in trouble again.

The first step is admiting you have a problem. It's
not the bank's problem. It's not the finance company's
problem. It's not the dealership's problem and it's
not the credit card company's problem.

It's *your* problem.

If you can admit that, we can move on and be
productive. If you can't, then we're done. Stop
reading here. Do not pass "Go", do not collect
$200.00


- quote -


<!ouch!

- quote -

Prior to bankruptcy doesn't matter. What you did before doesn't
matter. It's what you're doing now, and what you're going to do
in the future that matter.


- quote -

Good! You're getting it now. You're admiting the problem. It was,
indeed, a "stupid move". You said it. I didn't. I'm simply agreeing.

- quote -

Now wait a minute here. I thought we were getting
somewhere. Remember it's you (in this case your
wife).

She most certainly did not get ripped off. She signed
the paperwork knowing full well what the consequences
were. She made the decision. She did it willingly.

You're trying to imply that someone else ripped
her off. You're trying to lay the blame elsewhere.
Yes -- *she* allowed *herself* to get ripped off.
She's got the problem. No one ripped her off,
she simply made a bad decision. Accept responsibility
for that. There's no shame. We all, from time to time
make bad decisions. Be an adult. Take some
responsibility. Admit the mistakes. Correct them
and move on. You sound like a child here. You're
an adult.

- quote -

Caveat emptor. Buyer beware. It's *your* responsibility
to know how the transaction will affect you and your
credit rating. The salesman can (and will) tell you anything
he wants to, it's up to you to do the research and verify
what he's saying. If he's lying, move on. Find a salesman
who's a bit more honest.

Again, you're trying to lay blame on the salesman, when it's
your fault, and your fault alone.

- quote -

You need to learn about planning for your future. Putting
a bit aside for just such an emergency. Contingency planning
will help avoid, or at least minimize the financial aspect of
these unexpected emergencies.

Again, you're trying to blame this on circumstances
beyond your control -- the job. It's your fault. You
made the decision to not put anything away for
emergencies. You made the decision to purchase/lease
two vehicles when you could have, instead, put that
extra money in savings/investments for just such an
occasion.

- quote -

WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

Getting (multiple) jobs -- both you and your wife -- is
about the *only* way you'll get out of this.

(a) You can't borrow your way out. Borrowing more
will only dig the hole deeper.

(b) You can't file your way out. (Well, maybe you can
I'm not up on the laws) -- but it will get you absolutely
nowhere as your *TWO* recent bankruptcies will
prove.

You've really got two options -- and they're not
mutually exclusive. You could do one, the other,
or a bit of both:

(1) Generate more income. A second, third
job. Whatever the hell it takes.

(2) Decrease other expenses to free up
additional cash.

You've got to do (1),(2), or some combination
of both, or you're never going to correct the
situation.

Let's put this in perspective, just so you know where
I'm coming from. I've been there, done that. Not quite
to your extent -- total owed a bit less than $30K.

Wife and I cut back. Moved to a cheaper residence.
Both picked up second jobs -- me a third.

Sure it wasn't fun. It was damned hard. It sucked.
It went on for several years, but we did it. We payed
it all off without having to file the first bankruptcy.

We were both adult enough to realize that we had
created the mess and nothing was going to get us
out if it but hard fucking work and sacrifice. Period.

If you don't make the appropriate changes to both
your thinking and your lifestyle, you'll be on the streets
with no job, no money, no place to live, nothing to
eat, no medical, nothing. A few years of that and
you'll be dead. Your kids could end up on the
streets -- drug addicts and prostitutes. Not a
pretty picture.

Which is better. A few years of extra work or a
few years and your dead?

I'm serious here. You should be too.


- quote -

Too bad for you.

Let it go. You'll not, without picking up some extra
money, be able to continue to make the payments.
Either get another job to pay for it, or call and tell
them to send the repo man out and be done with
it.

Simple choice really. Quit whining about it.

- quote -

Not really. At times, you're willing to admit this, but
at times you're trying to blame someone else.

I'd stick with the "I am an idiot" theory at this point.



- quote -

Nope -- that's generally how it works. You'll pay the difference
between the balance you owe (according to the lease agreement)
and what they get at auction.

BE ADVISED: It will be worse than that. They'll tack on their
fees -- towing, storage, insurance while the thing sits there,
auction fees, cleaning/detailing to get it auction ready, plus
anything else they can get away with. Don't be surprised if
you $2,000 or $3,000 MORE upside down than you think
you are now, by the time it's all said and done.

- quote -


If you don't understand your lease contract, you should
have never signed it. Again, trying to lay blame on the
complexities of the legalese in the contract, rather than
admiting the problem is that *you* signed it without
fully understanding *your* obligation under the terms
of the contract.

- quote -

And that would be an extremely detrimental way
of dealing with this.

Let me state it, boldly, so that you'll not miss it:

YOU CAN'T BORROW YOUR WAY OUT OF DEBT

It's really a simple statement. Read it. Repeat it to yourself.
Know it. Understand it. *Live* it.

- quote -

Again -- blaming the salesmen.

You are most certainly on the wrong track here. You most definitely
*should* have to pay $8,000 because that is WHAT YOU AGREED
TO DO! Regardless of what the salesman does with it

BTW -- the salesman is moot at this point. It's the bank/finance
company/finance dept. that'll get the money. The salesman's out
of the picture.

Be a man fer christ's sake and admit that it's *your* fault
and quit blaming others.

- quote -

And it's your fault.

BTW -- yes, depreciation is getting you a bit here. More importantly
is that you paid too much for it. The gap between paying too much
and what you should have paid is making up far more than any
depreciation on the vehicle.

You're attempting to blame the depreciation -- like it's not
your fault.


- quote -


WOO HOO! An admission that you did something wrong!

- quote -

That's a question that only you can answer.

- quote -

That's the spirit! Just give up. Don't take responsibility. Don't
do the right thing. Don't make the hard choices, the difficult
decisions. Don't be a man and pay your debts.

Simply give up. That's the ticket. The easy way out.

Are you insane?!!! Giving up is what put you here. You've
been here before. Twice now you've given up. Once in
1994 and once in 1999. What makes you think that
simply giving up (again) this time will make things
any better in the future.

Giving up is obviously not working. It's not been working
for at least 10 years now. Don't you think it's time to
step up to the plate and show us what you're made of?

- quote -

They'll sue you. They'll win. Your credit will take another
hit and you'd still owe the money.


- quote -

Let me say it again:

YOU CAN'T BORROW YOUR WAY OUT OF DEBT

Get that out of your head right now. It's not an option.


- quote -

Then get another job or two.

- quote -

You're blaming the salesman again. You *can* do it. Even
with 4 kids. You'd be better off disappearing at work (your
new second and third jobs) for a year or two and handling
the situation, than fucking up the rest of their lives by
setting a bad example and running from your obligations.

I'd certainly be concerned about what my kids were
learning from my behavior. You're not teaching them
GoodThings by not handling your obligations.

Be a man. Be a father. Take care of your obligations.
Set an example for them. Show them the kind of person
you want them to grow up to be.


- quote -

Nobody can get you out of this but *you*.

Actually the market was being very efficient, the rate was 24%. A reasonable
person walks away when told that much.

We don't need a law, just an out break of common sense.

"John A. Weeks III" <john[at]johnweeks.com> wrote in message
news:111220031742039067%john[at]johnweeks.com...
- quote -

In article <xW2Cb.27$z74.11[at]okepread03> , Brent D. Gardner, ChFC
<bgardner20[at]cox.net> wrote:

- quote -

That's a good question. Back in the old days, banks didn't overloan
because some poor slob in the lending department would have to answer
for any loans that he approved that subsequently went bad. Now days,
it seems that lenders want to heap on credit on people, and then get
rich on the fees and high interest rates while blowing up their
clients.

Some folks have the attitude that if the lenders are silly enough to
loan the money that they know folks cannot afford, and if they get
burned by a default, that is just too bad. They deserved it. That
is kind of an extreme position in my opinion. I prefer personal
responsiblity, and folks should know better in the first place to
not get in over their head. But even smart people make dumb mistakes.

I don't like adding laws just for the sake of adding laws. If this
is taken to the extreme, we would have a full legal code on what
is and is not legal to do while taking a shower or getting dressed
in the morning. But I would agree that some kind of reform is needed
here since so many people are getting in over their heads.

-john-

--
================================================== ==================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john[at]johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ==================

Things Planet Earth <thingsplanetearth[at]NOSPAM.CA> wrote in message news:<pjIBb.639198$6C4.514570[at]pd7tw1no> ...
- quote -

If you are unwilling to get a second job then you are probably out of
luck. Your options are either to decrease your spending or increase
your income. Seems with $3500 net/month a $170K house and two big car
payments you won't be able to reduce spending to any great degree.
Spending time with your kids is laudable but it won't help you solve
your problem. I can't think of any other way out except to tap the
equity in your home.

Brent D. Gardner, ChFC wrote:
- quote -

At least some states have usury laws that in limit the interest rates
paid (fees, another story). If you don't live in one of those states,
though, you get things like 24% interest, which is one of those
self-fulfilling kinds of things...it can't reasonably be paid off by
anyone that is in a financial bracket to qualify for a 24% rate. So the
lender counts on essentially driving a large number of the pool to
bankruptcy, but that's OK because at 24% (plus fees) it's profitable.

It does seem like one of those areas where the free-market theories
break down, and only some kind of regulation would change things. I
can't think of a reason why 24% consumer credit should exist, it's
designed to profit from people who lack the knowledge or willpower to
avoid financial ruin. It doesn't provide consumers access to necessary
goods, because again if you are slapped with that kind of rate you can't
afford the thing you're buying, and ultimately you'll pay for it many
times over. But people keep buying junk like pickup trucks they don't
need at those kinds of rates, so something is needed to break the cycle.

As for the OP...agree w/Skip that this isn't really a financial planning
question. Two BKs followed by immediate new car purchases at sky-high
interest rates? Something needs to break that cycle because there's
nothing anyone can tell you that you didn't know before signing those
contracts to buy the vehicles.

-Tad

"HW "Skip" Weldon" <skip5700removethis[at]hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5jvgtvcbq2beq056arlkk4r3uco0tovhnt[at]4ax.com...
- quote -

Skip,

Do you ever wonder if there should be some laws against over loaning? If
over lending were either illegal, or subject to additional disclosures, then
maybe we wouldn't need all the credit counseling that goes on. I know the
banks don't want any laws like these. They benefit the most from the average
person overspending. Bankruptcies don't hurt banks, especially considering
the level at which most consumers file.

I have a handful of clients who I've counseled to reduce their spending,
because 10 years ago they were carrying balances equal to several months
total income. For example, a girl age 26, earning $1,800 per month with
$9,000 on one credit card, plus a car note. Six years later, she has another
car, with a higher payment, and still owes $9,000.

The interest alone is more than $100 per month, even though she's not
paying the high rates many others are. Over six years, she's spent over
$7,500 in interest payments alone.

How in the world did she qualify for a credit card with a $9,999 limit?

I see this a lot. They come in, referred by friends and parents, and they
want to invest. They can't even afford disability income protection, but
they've been car shopping in the last month.

When I look at the statements, I want to barf. People use credit cards to
pay bills, to pay for things that should be paid in cash, and then carry the
balance.

Credit should be earned, over a long period of time. Banks GIVE credit
cards to college students without verifying income. I see 22 year olds that
owe $20,000 on credit cards, not including student loans, with no job. That
should be illegal.

Brent D. Gardner, ChFC
Chartered Financial Consultant
http://members.cox.net/brentdgardner1378/

"Be ever questioning. Ignorance is not bliss. It is oblivion. You don't go
to heaven if you die dumb. Become better informed. Learn from other's
mistakes. You could not live long enough to make them all yourself." - Hyman
George Rickover (1900-86), Admiral, US Navy, advocated development of
nuclear subs & ships

The Chartered Life Underwriter (CLU) and Chartered Financial Consultant
(ChFC), designations owned and exclusively offered by The American College,
signify the highest standards of academic study and professional excellence
in the financial services industry.

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:02:51 CST, speednxsticket[at]earthlink.net
(Speednxs) wrote:


- quote -

Agree. I don't see a financial problem here - but a problem of
another sort (dealing with chronic bad decisions). The financial
element is merely how the problem is manifesting itself. There are
likely other manifestations as well. Anyway, focusing on how the
problem shows itself doesn't help with the REAL problem.

I don't know enough to suggest anything at this point. Usually I send
someone like this to a personal counselor. Perhaps someone else has
insight into this phenomenon.

-HW "Skip" Weldon
Columbia, SC

Things Planet Earth <thingsplanetearth[at]NOSPAM.CA> wrote in message news:<pjIBb.639198$6C4.514570[at]pd7tw1no> ...

- quote -

So you have three obvious choices:

Go back to your boss and say you bought this $40,000 truck (Canadian
money sounds unreal to us "Southerners") because it was going to pay
for itself (with a profit hopefully) and you need your job back that
will make this happen.

Keep paying on a $40,000 truck you don't need and don't use.

Make the best deal you can to return the truck and make payments on
your $8,000 truck that you don't own, don't need and don't use.

- quote -

(car) with borrowed money is bad. As you have found out, you can get
upside down. Buying appreciating assets (home) with borrowed money
has less risk. In the short term you could get upside down. With a
reasonable downpayment, if you get through the first five years or so,
you are probably OK.

I have OK credit (I said blushing) and I think of a credit card as a
money guarantee, not a borrowing source. Try renting a car without
one. It's oh so convinient to buy used books on Amazon.com with one.
I don't think of a credit card as a borrowing source. I live below my
means and sock money away into savings every month. If I put a $1,500
transmission on my credit card, the savings immediately go to pay it
off. I am extremely uncomfortable having money on a credit card. It
drives me nuts. I'm OK with mortgages. You seem to think that
spending money that you haven't earned yet is just the way it is done.
Well, you have lots and lots of company.

Time for some (short term) unpleasant choices.

Best of Luck in the Future,
Speednxs

Hello,

I am in real serious need of advice here and I was wondering if anyone out
there could help me with some advice for my situation

I am a person with 2 bankruptcies in my past

One discharged in 1994 (A dummy I am, I went down for a measly $12,000!)
One discharged in 1999 (non credit debts totalling $29,000)

So as you can see my credit is bad until 2013 since double bankruptcy stays
on your credit for 14 years from the last one's discharge.

Since 1999 my wife and I have had
PERFECT credit. Credit cards (we have 2) have
balances below $1000 and we always pay on time.
I also (prior to Bankruptcy) paid off 2 autos with perfect payment history.
But still even with the GOOD credit it is still hard to get low interest
credit because of the BK's.

About 6 months ago both my wife and I (with an incoming $1500 higher per
month net
than we have now) got sick of our cars breaking down all the time and we
both financed vehicles (stupid move) . She bought a car with a $13,000
value and got a REAL
high interest rate of 24%. In order for her to pay off this loan today, just
for the payoff
it would be $19,000...so she is $6000 in NEGATIVE value. Her payment is $600
per month.
Yes, she got ripped off!

I made an even worse decision and LEASED a vehicle
for $600 per month. I could sell it for $32,000 but in order to pay it off I
would need $40,000 ( that is the BUYOUT!!!). So I am even worse off at
$8,000 in NEGATIVE value.

When we bought these cars we were told by the salesman that we are
re-building our credit by purchasing and paying good on these vehicles.
I realize there are a lot of dishonest salesman out there but it did make
sense to us at the time. We have since learned that because my past 2
bankruptcies will be on my credit until 2013 that I can do ALL that I want
and the credit will STILL be rated as "bad".

Now, due to a recent change in our jobs out income has gone from a take home
amount of $5000
per month, down to just $3500 per month. We have not DECREASED in hours so
simply getting
another part time job to boost income is just about out of the question.

Now, with this job change I no longer need the big pickup truck that I am
leasing. ( I would like to add that I was NOT demoted or anything, just
company shifting caused me to lose a lot of money!)
I have only been leasing the truck for 6 months so it is VERY hard to get
out of the lease especially since I
paid so high for it (the salesman probably had a party right after I left
the lot).
So I am now driving my $300 "paid for" beat up toyota to work everyday
because for (1) I don't need the truck anymore for my job (2)I can't afford
to put gas in it (it gets 9 MPG and my toyota gets 48 MPG).

I realize that I am an idiot for getting into this mess and I have learned
my lesson.
But now having said that...what do I do? Changing jobs is out of the
question for now since any loss of income right now would cause me to be
even worse off and despite the recent job re-structure I still do like the
job. I guess my wife could keep her car and we could pay for it since it is
not a lease and we would try and get better financing for it but as for the
truck I simply DO NOT need it. I have called the leasinjg company and asked
for mercy but they don't care because they are a bank and they said they
can't just take cars/trucks back (nowhere to put them).
It has gotten to the point that we HATE the truck, we see it as taking food
off of the table.
Because of the changes at our work in about 30-60 days the well will have
run dry and I will no longer be able to afford the payment on the truck.
That is where my questions come in.

1) If I return my LEASED truck (lease is just 6 months old) will the jerks
at the car lot just let it sit for a couple of months until delinquency has
set in on my account, then AUCTION the truck for $30,000 and send me a bill
for $10,000 shortcoming??? Or is it different because it is a lease (like a
3 month payment penalty)?
Does anyone know the laws on this? My lease contract reads like mumbo jumbo!

2) Outside of a home equity loan I have NO OTHER means to pay for this
shortcoming and
to be honest I really don't think I should have to pay $8,000 just to line
the pockets of the
salesman. I bought the truck with 11,000 kilometers on it and it now has
13,000 k on it.
I have only driven it 2,000 k in 6 months!! I have parked it in my garage
and pampered it
all those 6 months and have paid the lease payment on time each month! With
this in mind why should I have to pay $8,000-$10,000 for nothing??? I have
heard of depreciation but this is ridiculous!
I simply agreed to pay too much for the damned thing.

3) Is my credit with bankruptcy on it for the next 10 years worth saving at
the cost of $8,000-$10,000???
I could understand a person with perfect credit going to great lengths to
save their credit
but I have 2 BK's on there for the next 10 years...so is it really worth my
throwing away $10,000
just to keep a repo off my report? Also, with this in mind...I have a
mortgage ( I assumed the mortgage
and I am in perfect standing with it). I have 2 low limit credit cards that
are nearly paid off
and I never plan to get anything on credit again...so should I really care
about my already
damaged credit??? That is assuming I just let it get repo'd and they don't
sue me for the $10K anyway.

4) Our house is worth $170,000 and we owe $125,000. I guess we could get a
HOME equity loan
from it at 12%-16% interest and maybe pay off my wife's car for a better
interest rate from the
H.E. loan as apposed to the auto financing of 24% !!! But should I do
that???

Here are our numbers:

Net $3500 per month

Wife's car payment $598 (24% interest!!!) value of car $13,000 avg retail
OWE $19,000 buyout

My Truck LEASE $602 (48 month term, I am 6 months into it) Value of truck
$32,000 avg retail OWE $40,000 buyout

So as you can see we are sinking a GREAT deal of our income into these
damned cars! (not too mention higher insurance)

House is worth $170,000 and we owe $125,000 and have no other means of
borrowing (ie: relatives etc)

Bankruptcy again is NOT an option since I REFUSE to ever do it again and
also
it really isn't neccesary in this case since the truck is the only thing
busting the budget right now and
we have NO delinquent debts.

Someone once suggested that I just get another job and tough it out (not a
bad idea
but I have 4 kids and I refuse to be absent from their lives just to make
sure the truck salesman
makes his full profit). Also, it would be hard to find the work anyway.

I thought that maybe there are financial planners out there who can help me
with ideas
and such but I think they just want my money also ...right? I called a
credit
counselling service and they seemed to know less than I did, so that did not
help much.

Does anyone have any suggestions or advice?

Please constructive critisism and suggestions only please ( I already know
my mistakes )


thank you

P.S. A 100% H.E. loan is out of the question I think because of my credit