paminof wrote:
- quote -

I remember the first rollover I did, from my first 401k, where the
account "would have gone up" something like $900 during the transfer
delay. After another, say, 30 years of investment that's a lot of money.

But I found out that there's not much to be done about it. The custodian
is allowed some time to make the distribution, and it's more than just a
few days (and more than a few weeks I believe). You can complain to the
DoL at a certain point but unless they're doing something inappropriate
with the funds I don't think you'd get very far.

I've seen a big range from plan to plan. I usually figure on a month
from initial submission of paperwork to having the money in the
destination account, including all delays during the process.
Occasionaly it takes longer, rarely is it a lot shorter. If a client has
a large amount to rollover I consider doing it in batches so that a
large sum doesn't remain uninvested at any given time.

I think though you'll find that market fluctuation will work both for
you and against you. Not that you want to game this too much, but it's
entirely possible that by the time you have the money (or shortly
thereafter) the market will be flat, or even down - in which case it
worked in your favor.

-Tad

paminof wrote:

- quote -

Not for one person, but if you multiply the cost times the number of
distributions in a year and the number of years, there's a cost that has
to be borne by somebody if you use more expensive means of distribution
(which would include "fast track" distributions). And you have the
weight of the fact that more people are staying than leaving--so
imposing the extra cost on the plan itself burdens the remaining
participants.

- quote -

True--but the plan has a very real cost of handling the distributions.
Again, the plan is entitled to balance these rights. And, so long as
the dealy is not *unreasonable* you aren't going to have a case.

- quote -

I guess the question is why not? Heck, the bank does that with my any
number of regular checking accounts. Again, it's a balancing act issue
and *reasonable* time periods are not a problem. Now, if we start
talking about waiting two months, the issue has changed. But let's
remember it's the *plan* and not the *employer* that has the funds in
this case--so any benefit is going to the remaining plan participants.

- quote -

Won't work--ERISA preempts state law on this matter. So you'd have to
file your case in the appropriate federal district court. The state
court has no jurisdiction in the matter, and the first thing counsel for
the plan would do is file to move the case to federal court and then
move to have the case dismissed--and would certainly win on the first
point, and almost certainly would win on the second with the facts
you've given.

If you wanted to pursue a complaint, the smartest move would be to go to
the US Department of Labor (who does have jurisdiction). But don't be
surprised if they aren't too excited on this issue. You need much more
extreme facts than you have here.

---
Ed Zollars, CPA
Phoenix, Arizona

Get out the plan documents or if your lucky its on-line and look at the
redemptions requirements. If this is an ESOP they maybe restricted to
certain times of the month to buy and sell.


"paminof" <nGbZRS3BtySuN_remove_[at]att.net> wrote in message
news:3f130bf6.306781[at]netnews.worldnet.att.net...
- quote -

Thanks Ed, I read your posts quite regularly. Some bulletin boards
show the number of hits on each post. If they did this in newsgroups
you'd find that your posts are very popular and widely read.

The employer is a large bank, my wife's rollover is a drop I the
bucket for them, so I doubt that the distribution would affect the
existing plan participants. I have a loss of interest and opportunity
cost. The mutual fund at Vanguard has gained 1.5% during the last
week. I didn't think it was legal for anyone to hold your money
without paying interest. At the very least they could say to me,
"we're holding the funds in an account for you and you'll receive
interest for X number of days until the funds are wired." I could
file in Small Claims Court, here in Mass the maximum is $2,000

On 15 Jul 2003 02:10:05 GMT, "Ed Zollars, CPA"
<ezollar[at]mindspring.com> wrote:

- quote -

nGbZRS3BtySuN_remove_[at]att.net (paminof) wrote in message news:<3f130bf6.306781[at]netnews.worldnet.att.net> ...
- quote -

Yes, I believe they can do this, and no, don't waste your time trying
to file claims. I doubt you'll get anywhere. See if you can ask them
nicely to release and wire transfer the part that is already in cash.
They may tell you no, and you may have to politely, sweetly--but
firmly--go up the ladder and insist that in your view, two transfers
are better than one.

Ultimately, they may still say no. This is often a problem when
individual/company stock is involved.

http://thetaoofthedow.blogspot.com

paminof wrote:

- quote -

They would be allowed a reasonable time period to handle this, and they
would not be required to take extraordinary steps to get the money
moved, especially if such steps would cost the plan (and therefore the
remaining participants) money.

- quote -

Well, even assuming four days is unreasonable (and I have serious doubts
a court would that), you'd have to show damages. Since I doubt DOL
would be interested in this issue (they have far bigger fish to fry and
it's not clear at all there's anything actionable here), you'd likely
have to pay for any action on your own. It's not likely the damages are
large enough to pay for virtually *any* costs involved with such a pursuit.

Now, if this drags on for months, your case gets a lot stronger...

--
Ed Zollars, CPA
Phoenix, Arizona

I'm doing a direct rollover of my wife's 401(k) from the employer's
plan to a traditional IRA at Vanguard. The 401(k) consists of 3
mutual funds and a single stock. They've liquidated the mutual funds
last Wednesday July 9th (total value $300K+) but they haven't
sold/settled on the stock yet -- a bank stock. They've agreed to wire
the funds to Vanguard, but are unable to tell me exactly WHEN. The
money is now in limbo for 4 days, it's not invested and I'm not
collecting interest. Is the employer's 401(k) plan allowed to do
this? Should I file claims against them?